Mar 15
Motoring TV - tells Canadians to shop in Canada!!
In spite of excessive Higher prices, Motoring TV tells Canadians to spend their $$$ in Canada and support their local dealers. They fail to recognize that this is not a dealer issue. It is the car manufacturers in the U.S., Japan and Europe that are “gouging” $6-7 Billion every year from Hard working Canadians! Yes, we pay $6-7 billion a year more for our cars than our American Cousins. Now how does that make you feel about pissing away your hard earned money to support your local boys!
Average Hard working Canadians should have the freedom to make that choice. The choice between buying in the U.S. or buying locally. Right now, given the positions taken by the Car Manufacturers, our government and the media, the Canadian consumer is being “handcuffed” and misinformed. The pricing issue is not complex. It is in the best interests of the Car Manufacturers to make it seem so.
Read the exchange of emails with Bob & Motoring TV. They are not on the same wave length as CWB and most hard working Canadians …. and they did not even consider our challenge to report both sides of the story!
Please feel free to write them and tell them what you think of the position they have taken jim@motoringtv.com brad@motoringtv.com bill@motoringtv.com
March 15th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Here is a response that I received from automotive@sympatico.ca - following Bob’s email,
“We get no sponsorship from any manufacturer and this show aired 13 weeks ago when the loonie was not as strong as it is today. Go buy your US car (probably an import where there is no tangible benefit to Canada) and then try to get the warranty enforced — self-funding it, my friend, will be a lesson in life. When you buy in Buffalo or Seattle you only line the pockets of the people living there. Hopefully, your business does not rely on local people buying to survive.
I am glad you watch the show.
Graeme.”
My Comments - I couldn’t disagree more with this thinking - I wonder how many “Made in China” article this fellow has in his house? Probably he doesn’t think it’s the same thing. Hey Bob - I think you got their attention.
Serge
March 15th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
If the greedy manufacturers addressed the price disparity we wouldn’t have to go shop in the U.S. I really used to like reading Jim’s stuff, but his comments implying that this is somehow the consumers’ fault for trying to make a point by buying in the U.S. is disturbing. Sure, some people bought when the prices were higher, but that’s the nature of the beast….why should those who are in the market for a new car suffer because of that? Is this selfish thinking?…not really…those in the market for a new car can say that those who are complaining that they paid too much are selfish for thinking about themselves and not for those that could get a better deal.
I don’t want to put the dealers out of business, but its really the manufacturers that would accomplish that if they did not address the pricing disparity. This is not about supporting local business, but rather people protesting the unfair pricing practices of the manufacturers by purchasing their vehicles stateside. I can guarantee people would stop buying cars across the border and support their local dealer if the pricing issue was addressed.
March 15th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Graeme/Motoring TV:
Graeme of Motoring TV did not do his Homework when he stated that there is no benefit to Canada in importing.
Case in point:
Facts:
Honda Civic: Assembled in Alliston Ontario. (Canadian benefit)
Shipped to US via Canadian truckers. (Canadian benefit)
Imported to Canada and GST paid. (Canadian benefit)
Import fee paid. (Canadian benefit)
PST and License fee paid. (Canadian Benefit)
Amount of paperwork to be completed by importer: None
All paperwork performed by dealer, US and Canadian Customs, RIV, Canadian Tire and Provincial License Bureau.
Been there, done that and saved more than $5000 which did not go into the pockets of Canadian gouging dealers.
Level the playing field and we will buy in Canada.
Lesson in journalism: Get the facts from someone who has been directly involved and never accept hearsay evidence.
March 16th, 2008 at 7:48 am
If I buy a Toyota made in Japan or in Canada, and the price is inflated by $10,000 or more, this extra profit goes to Japan, directly to Japan, does not pass by Ottawa. Don’t think for one second that the Head Office will allow this money to stay in Canada and pay taxes in Canada. Wake up Motoring TV - do your homework.
P.S. you might want to study what went on in Europe 10 years ago with car pricing.
March 16th, 2008 at 8:40 am
lol great job Robert.
“Where’s the concern for the guy who bought or leased his
>car a few months ago, who now stands to lose thousands of dollars if
>they adjust the new-car prices downward?”
hey jim! does this belief apply to new models as well? lol
March 16th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Another fine example of government scare tactics. While we Canadians pay $6-7K more here for vehicles, our good old dealerships are having a field day jockeying cars from south of the border to sell to Canadians (I just brought an 05 Quest through the Buffalo border and witnessed it with my own eyes) and meanwhile these guys are giving us the patriotic shpeel!!!
That’s just great Canadians should just open their wallets and give away their money.
March 16th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Since Jim is so moral as to buying in Canada, i suggest he give up all fruits and vegetables until the summer months and he walk around naked. Surely he wouldn’t want to buy anything not made in Canada? How about that computer you emailed Bob with…was that made in Canada?
Listen, i’m all for buying here, in fact i’m waiting for prices to drop as the Canadian dollar is going nowhere while the US dollar continues to slide into a bottomless pit. In September there were articles rationalizing the price differences due to the time it takes for prices to adjust as inventory could have been purchased up to a year ago at higher exchange rates. Meanwhile, Transport Canada is tentatively talking about revisiting their made in Canada bumper standards sometime this year. As each month passes it will become that much harder to come up with ridiculous excuses as to the price differences.
Jim, don’t you think pricing parity might actually be good, no make that absolutely fantastic for our local dealers? Instead of holding my cars for 10 years I would probably turn them over every 3 years as a new model came out if they were that much cheaper. Instead of going to Green & Ross or Canadian Tire I could get my work done at the dealer with all that extra savings. Similarly, before one computer was a luxury, now I have 3 of them.
In February Toyota announced MSRP price drops while other manufacturers offered cash incentives and the result was auto sales at an all-time record. Dennis DesRosiers stated “My economics professor always preached to me that price is a very strong variable in any economic equation and February proved him correct.” http://www.canadiandriver.com/news_2008/03/04/080304-1.htm It sure sounds like those price drops are putting dealers out of business!
The most laughable of Jim’s arguments is his concern over the guy who leased a few months ago. This is a political answer, not one grounded in common sense and it shows that he is being “influenced” by interested parties. This type of answer reminds me of what is happening in the US as politicians scramble to bailout homeowners, flippers and speculators who bought overpriced houses they couldn’t afford. Instead of letting house prices fall to where supply = demand they try their best to keep housing prices artificially high at the expense of future homeowners and future generations. A house is not a lottery ticket and lower priced cars in Canada will not bankrupt our Canadian dealers. Simple.
March 16th, 2008 at 10:42 am
My wife is currently looking for a new mini van (Hyundai EntourageGLS) for her daycare business ,when we see the price difference between US and Canadian pricing (38,000cdn vs. 24,000us) well…it’s a no brainer, we will be purchasing in the states.
This is not about supporting our local dealer, this is about fair pricing!!!….CANADIAN CAR MANUFACTURES, STOP GOUGING US!!!!!
Cheers, Rob
March 16th, 2008 at 10:51 am
HI Robert,
I think the misinformation being to Canadians along with the guilt trip should be illegal. It kind of makes you wonder what other lies we as consumers are being fed.
Here are some facts that I wish to share with other Canadians. I have just bought a new car. I was hesitant in buying it in the US because of details, varied information, paperwork etc but I took a month to do full research and March 14th 2008 I crossed the US border into Qc with my brand new Subrau Outback 2.5I 2008. I saved over $8,000 of which $ 1,000 was just on taxes (GST & PST). Before purchasing in the US, I emailed a Montreal (West Island) Subaru dealership expressing my concern regarding the $10,000 price difference between the CDN Outback 2.5i and the US Outback 2.5i-first of all I received no response from the CDN dealership, next I went into the dealership where I picked up a flyer, I looked around for about 5 minutes and was served by NOBODY. Do you think I’m going to give these people my business???!!
Here are some facts:
1) The 2008 outback 2.5i US model is more equipped than the one being sold in Qc
2) The warranty is respected in the following way: when your car is repaired in Canada, you keep the receipt and mail it to Subaru of America who will reimburse you. The agreement you get in writting from Subaru of America. There are some Canadian Subaru dealerships that are recognizing the US warranty and thus you are credited immedietly without going through the refund system where you must use Subaru of America.
3) As a Canadian you CANNOT benefit from the US specials and visa versa. This is an agreement made between Subaru of America and Subaru of Canada.
4) You will pay more for interest rates when you purchase your car in the US because the US dealership will not supply you with financing. You must use your bank and these rates are about 7-8%. Even with this difference in loan rates and the paperwork fees for importing the Subaru-I still saved over $8,000. So don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.
The following was my experience with the US dealership-they were fantastic. They are organized, they knew what was required in terms of paperwork to import the car in Canada. The service was 12/10. The 1st time I went down (and you can do the sale over the phone but I wanted to be sure of my purchase), the salesman spent about 1 hour with me, took the time to go on a test drive, explain the car etc. At that time I gave a deposit. The car was ready within a week. The day I went down to pick it up-the dealership spenk 1.5 hrs with me. My salesman went through the manual, the inside of the car, the various waranties. I was explained every bit of paper, they even took the time to prepare separate envelope labelled: US customs, Personal paperwork, Canadian customs. And within 24 hours of pickig up the car, I had an email from my salesman asking how my drive home went etc.
Please, if there is anything mentioned in this experience that makes you want to buy in Canada and not in the US…let me know. By the way it took 2 minutes to go through both the US and Canada customs.
So all this being said-it takes time to set up and be prepared for buying in the US, but calculate what salary you’re giving yourself when you save $8,000. With this experience and the misleading information being given to Canadians I have decided to set up a website (will be up and running by March 31st 08) http://www.importasubaru.com as a consulant to help Quebecers (possibly Canadians) import a subaru from the US.
Good luck with new car purchases and don’t trust the misleading information. It would be like me handing over a $8,000 check to the Subaru dealership that didn’t respond to my email, that didn’t give me any customer service-thanks but no thanks.
March 16th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Wow Jim
You really have been blinded by the light of the Automotive Industry propaganda.
I won’t debate each item point by point but you should stick to what you know, not what you want to believe. (to keep a good supply of demo auto’s coming perhaps?) Here’s a hint, drop the rhetoric and try stick to some hard FACTS!!!!!
Here are some of the highlights of your erroneous, if not outright incorrect commentary.
1) I was assailing the pricing levels of the Canadian Auto Industry as a
whole, including the Manufacturers. After all, someone is taking this extra 30-50% net profit to the Bank, (maybe 20-40% after Canadian corporate tax differences), it isn’t me, it isn’t my fellow Canadian car buyers. I wonder who that leaves?
2) Where do you get your stats that no money is made by the Canadian dealers
on new cars. I think it is time you got educated. I have previously worked in the Canadian Banking system for the past 25 years, 20+ of them dealing directly with the automotive business. Having access to real financial results (broken out monthly by new, used and parts/service revenues) I can unequivocally say THESE DEALERS MAKE & HAVE MADE MONEY, EVEN WELL BEFORE THEIR PRODUCT COST HAS BEEN SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED DUE TO EXCHANGE IN THE PAST 8 MONTHS. Normal product mark-ups are supplemented by other great revenue/net profit streams such as a) volume bonuses paid annually from the factory based on $ value # of units ordered, 2) Excessive profits from useless 300-400% marked add-ons like “paint protection, under coating, fabric protection, etc…. 3) How about that Life & Disability Insurance protection sold at 3-4 x street pricing where the dealer receives 40-60% of the total premium as a perk, and 4) Bank and Finance company finders fees/discount bonuses, based on the % of interest the dealer can increase financing above posted dealer rates. ie increasing the rate from 7% to 8% over a 5 year term gives the dealer an extra $1500-$3000 cheque on a normal, everyday car, let alone the $70,000 diesel 4×4 (note, that’s only $38-40,000 in the USofA). If the dealers did as you so wisely advise, to invest in ING (a non-Canadian Bank I might add, paying a max of 4%), they would be leaving the above 5-15% profit on the table. Kindly do everyone a favour and don’t start teaching economics or business administration anytime soon.
3) MSRP’s aren’t dropping, only special rebates have been added on sluggish
and/or highest priced product, (primarily Chrysler/Dodge offerings). Kindly show me the reductions is MSRP’s, I don’t think I have had entered that dream world yet. Oh yeah, and the largest rebate or credit I could find on the 4 vehicles I am looking at was a $1000 fuel credit on a top-end Nissan Rogue, ($500 for lower end S series). Great decrease indeed to help make up for our great Canadian pricing.
4) Probably the area where you should be brought up to speed are with
respect to your less enlightened verbiage around the following 3 comments:
So What if you were “the last person who bought before they dropped prices”. At least they finally woke up and smelled the coffee. I may have just replaced 1 of my 7 vehicles, 6 more to go works for me and most other consumers. Even more important, you don’t understand the business/planning concept of “time, value, money”, where you are much worse off loosing thousands of dollars UP FRONT by paying too much, compared to a lower depreciated resale value if prices were dropped. I would prefer to save $10,000 now and defer my loss to resale stage on the depreciated price (70-80% less than retail over 5 years) rather than on the full retail price. This theory is the only reason accountants have thriving businesses, defer current income to 20-23% future rates rather than paying taxes up front at 45%+ rates.
The second evidence of non-sensical commentary was your “Funny; I didn’t get any e-mails from Canadian consumers over the past decade or so when Canadian prices were generally cheaper than in the States…” You didn’t get complaints because our 25-35% exchange difference made the Canadian price lower, not the actual MSRP. The only thing “FUNNY” here was that Canadian Dealers actively marketed and sold their new and best used vehicles in droves into the United States to take advantage of this exchange difference. I don’t remember the US dealers taking similar measures to ensure their buyers had to stay at home like their Canadian brethren.
Thirdly you said, “Others need modifications which reduce or eliminate the price advantage.” Since when do DRL’s or a third stop lamp make up for $8,000-$21000 price differentials? Only in 3rd grade math I suppose.
I guess I can come to only one conclusion from your misguided ranting, namely, You clearly support the status quo of our protectionist, non-competitive system in the Canadian Automotive Industry.
Frankly, I’m sick to death of being screwed over and want no part of it. If you want to stay in the dark and ignore the actual profitability being made based on protectionism, Well all I can say is good luck and…
Adios Comrade Kenzie.
C
—–Original Message—–
From: Jim Kenzie [mailto:jimkenzie@gmail.com]
Sent: March 15, 2008 2:39 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Kenzie’s Corner Mar 15/08, Canada vs USA
Hi Chris:
Whoa boy, slow down!!!
First, we do not accept ANY advertising from car manufacturers on our show. You may not agree with what we say, but you can rest assured that it is what we believe!
The Canadian-US price differential is a complex issue, and we have tried to treat it as such.
Some cars cannot be imported, for various technical reasons. That’s not my fault, it’s just the way it is.
Some US-spec cars do in fact have 2.5 mph rear bumpers, which do not meet Canadian specifications. Transport Canada, for their own reasons, also impose certain other restrictions - not many are left, but there are a few.
Again, NOT my doing! Don’t shoot the messenger…
Others need modifications which reduce or eliminate the price advantage.
Warranty concerns are indeed an issue. The manufacturers and distributors cannot always dictate what their dealers can and cannot do, on either side of the border. But especially in the States, where car dealer associations have a great deal of leverage in state legislatures, they can make the wheels turn pretty slowly for those who disobey their corporate connections.
Car dealers don’t make much if any profit on sales of new cars, so you can’t blame them for the pricing. An eight percent mark-up, before expenses, when they have multi-million dollar investments in their facilities? They’d be better off closing their doors and putting the money into ING Direct.
And you could also hardly blame the dealers if a US-imported car gets the proverbial wall job when it is brought in for service.
Also, you seem concerned only about the consumer who buys today or tomorrow. What if the car makers do drop their prices, which contrary to what you say here is happening daily? What if you had been the last guy to buy or lease at the old price? You would now stand to lose thousands of dollars overnight. Is that fair?
The car industry (manufacturers, importers AND dealers - remember, the dealers are separate entities) are tying to react as quickly as they can to this situation (and the forward averaging they do of currencies, transfer prices, etc., can take longer to work itself through the system than a single model year; it is not simply a matter of replacing inventory).
Unlike, for instance, the music recording industry, the car industry understands that there is no percentage in pissing off their customers, current or potential
It will eventually balance out; meanwhile it will be difficult.
Which is what I think I said!
Funny; I didn’t get any e-mails from Canadian consumers over the past decade or so when Canadian prices were generally cheaper than in the States…
Cheers, and thanks for watching anyway!
Jim Kenzie
At 07:12 PM 3/15/2008, you wrote:
>Being an avid car fanatic currently with 7 vehicles in my household, I
>used to enthusiastically watch and appreciate your show and it’s
>unbiased
reviews
>and viewpoints. Well, all that has changed after listening to your
Kenzie’s
>Korner of this morning. What an interesting point of view,
>conveniently identical to that of our Canadian Auto trade. One would
>almost think you were in their back pocket by the numerous erroneous
>facts & assumptions you spewed and the real facts you omitted.
>
>Here are the main facts you “accidentally” left out.
>
>1) The Canadian Dollar has been at rough parity with the US
>greenback since
>Aug 2007, more than enough time to flush out old inventory brought in a
old,
>higher Manufacturers suggested retail pricing.
>
>2) You conveniently didn’t get into actual price differences
>and percentages
>on fully equivalent models, (no they are not “Made specifically for
>Canada other unless you consider a block heater or heated mirrors). I
>have looked at all 4 vehicles, all identical models as per below and
>the price premium to buy Canadian ranges from a low of 29% to a high of
>over 50%. Hardly close to and difference in “cost of living” and
>”taxation” you verbalized.
>
>3) You quote you are going to “Support your local gunfighter”. Not a
bad
>idea if your local gunfighter would fight fair with one bullet in his
>chamber to match mine. Unfortunately, he has his loaded six shooter
>full
of
>rules, lies, fabrications and roadblocks to keep me and others a
>captive Canadian target. Why you don’t deal with these issues I’ll
>never know, Oh yeah, refer back to my opening paragraph, sentence
>three.
>
>Here are just a few tactics and issues I ran into recently when trying
>to price out & buy a new sport-ute/crossover (Toyota FJ Cruiser or
>Nissan
>Rogue) and sports car, (350Z or Corvette), to replace my aging Mazda
>Tribute and 03 350Z respectively. Read On, these are the real facts you
>omitted in your “dealer advertisement” known as “Kenzies’s Korner”.
>
>-I was told outright that “US bumpers don’t meet Canadian slow speed
>crash standards”. Look into it, when is 5 mph any different than 8
>kmph -I was advised US immobilisers don’t meet Canadian standards and thus you
>can’t register these cars in Canada. (I was told this AFTER the new Sept
>15/07 regulation driven by the Canadian auto business was eliminated
>soon after, convenient timing for a new rule when considering the date
>of parity in currencies, I think not!) -When I refused to believe the
>above BS and contacted Transport Canada to get the real facts, my
>valiant Canadian gunfighters then resorted to blackmail. ie “We won’t
>service your car here”. When is a warranty not a warranty, when the
>vendor refuses to compete is a free market environment due to their own
>greed. -The second blackmail was more insidious, The Canadian
>bureaucrats protecting the Ontario auto industry quickly passed a
>guideline that, to register/import your US purchased car you must
>obtain a Canadian Manufacturers letter that any & all recalls have been
>performed.
Previously
>the US dealer would do a VIN search and provide this a copy as proof,
>for free. The Cost quoted by my dealers in Canada, $1000 to $1500.
>What a joke. -Pricing. Since earnestly beginning my new vehicle
>searches in spring ‘07, Canadian Retail pricing hasn’t dropped one
>cent. Matter of fact, pricing for a new Nissan 350Z I was looking at
>increased by $3,000. When manufacturers were queried as to the big
>Canada/USA difference they came up with new terminology, namely “We
>Price to Market” and have “Made in Canada Pricing”. Easy to do say the
>market has no upper limit when totally insulated from any competition.
>-Delivery Charges - Another Made-in-Canada rip off. When comparing
>destination charges for identical Nissan Rogues in Bellingham Washington
and
>Surrey BC (60 km’s apart) what was the difference in fee, USA $700,
>Canada $1400. 100% above the USA for a vehicle dropped off at a local
>dock in either Seattle or Vancouver for no reason other than more
>greed. All other vehicles I priced have similar large destination
>discrepancies.
>
>
>4.) Up against all this Canadian Auto Business driven BS is the lone
>bullet in my chamber. To speak with my wallet. Refusing to be gouged
>anymore by delaying new replacement purchases until Canadian Dealers
>get real with their pricing or failing that, by purchasing directly
>from the USA at significant discounts ie:
>
>MSRP’s incl. Destination Charges on
>
>-FJ Cruiser C Package +30% or $8,520, ($36,980 vs $28,460)
>-Nissan Rogue AWD S +37.2% or $7,923, ($29,323 vs $21,440)
>-Nissan Rogue AWD SL +31.6% or $8,733 ($36,423 vs $27,660)
>-Corvette Z06 1SB +29.8% or $22,520 ($98,085 vs $75,565)
>-Nissan 350Z 6M Touring +50.1% or $17,128 ($34,195 vs $51,323)
>
>I love Canada and would happily pay an additional 10% premium plus any
>spot difference in the exchange rates for the privilege of paying Canadian taxes
>and supporting Canadian companies & workers. But when it becomes obvious
>the Canadian Industry is driven by greed and supported by what I hope
>is just a blind automotive press, I and many other Canadians have no
intention
>of dropping dollar one of our hard earned money in the lap of the
>Canadian Auto Industry who take us all for fools.
>
>I wish I could say I was alone, but US car sales to Canadians have
>never been higher, with an estimated 4,000 Canadians per month forced
>to travel south to get a fair deal. (refer Transport Canada stats,
>120,000+ US purchased vehicles registered in Canada in 2007) Note
>Canadian new car
sales
>were down 14,200 Sept-Dec 07 vs same period in 2006. (source
>DesRosiers).
>
>Please wake up to the issues and plight of the Canadian consumer rather
than
>catering to the agenda of the automotive industry.
March 16th, 2008 at 10:56 am
To: jim@motoringtv.com; brad@motoringtv.com; bill@motoringtv.com; graeme@motoringtv.com
Subject: Support Canadian Pricing and Dealers?? You Guys Have Not Done Your Homework!
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 07:03:30 +0000
I imported a new 2008 Toyota Tacoma 4 x 4 truck, with full warranty, from the US on January 14, 2008 at a saving of $12,000.
You suggest that Canadians support Canadian dealers and buy in Canada. This is a very foolish recommendation. I can only assume that you have failed to do your homework before taking that position.
The auto manufacturers are threatening the US dealerships, lying, delaying or refusing to issue recall letters, denying warranty coverage and generally attempting to stop free trade to keep vehicle pricing substantially higher in Canada than in the US. Canadian vehicles are currently overpriced from $5,000 to $20,000 (and more) in comparison to the exact same vehicle being sold just accross the border.
You argue that there is no benefit to Canada if I purchase a vehicle in the US. I paid the Canadian government full GST and PST when the truck was imported. I paid fees to RIV, Canadian Tire and ICBC for insurance and permits. No, the canadian salesman did not earn a commission and the dealership did not earn a profit. The US auto manufacturer did not get his extra $12,000 either! I will keep that to spend in Canada!!
Your position supporting buying vehicles in Canada and supporting the local dealerships is exactly what the US auto manufacturers want. Don’t put any pressure on them to reduce Canadian pricing. Let them keep on gouging the Canadian buyer for $5,000 to $20,000 on every new vehicle sold in Canada which is profit paid directly to the US manufacturer based on the price he has charged our Canadian dealership. Do you have any idea how much money this removes from the Canadian economy?
Wake up! Do some proper research. Find out what the auto manufacturers, and yes, many Canadian dealerships are doing to try to stop Canadians from getting fair pricing available to every Americal just accross the border. The gouging of some Canadian importers by some Canadian dealerships to do some minor changes to imported vehicles is criminal.
You should be advising every Canadian to buy accross the border. Save thousands of dollars and wake up the threatening, lying, cheating auto manufacturers to the fact that we are not stupid. We will not stand for their efforts to stop free trade and their efforts to continue to overcharge Canadians for their vehicles.
Our Canadian dealerships must put the pressure on the auto manufacturers to get better purchase pricing, equal to the costs paid by the US dealerships, or Canadians will never get fair pricing.
Those of us that have done our homework, stood up to the US auto manufacturers, worked hard to lobby the government to change the import rules to remove import barriers and have gone ahead and successfully imported a vehicle from the US are proud of what we have done. We have saved thousands of dollars and have defeated the threatening, lying and cheating US auto manufacturer who has attempted to interfer with free trade. We know that we are leading the way toward lower pricing and affordability of automobiles for all Canadians.
Your support for “buying in Canada” and supporting the “local dealership” is noble but is doing nothing to assist Canadians to get fair pricing from the auto manufacturers through Canadian dealerships.
Do some research. Go price the vehicle of your dream at a US dealership, add all the options, and then go price the same vehicle with the same options at a Canadian dealership. Only a fool would then proceed with buying in Canada!
Go to the “Cars Without Borders” website, read about what the auto manufacturers and some Canadian dealerships are trying to do to Canadians importing vehicles from the US. I highly doubt that, if you get involved and do the proper research, that you will then tell Canadians to support the current system.
Sincerely,
ed
The successful importer of a 2008 Toyota Tacoma, 4 door, 4 x 4 at a savingt of $12,000!
(With all fees, insurance and permits, GST and PST paid to Canadian companies and the Canadian Government to benefit Canada)
March 16th, 2008 at 11:16 am
i usually change the channel when Jim Kenzie’s show segment comes on because i can’t stand his arrogant personality . as for the show not being funded by the auto industry ,hmmmm… i wonder who supplies the cars they test drive and invites them to new product launches in the first place ? without the auto manufacturers and funding from the crtc there would be no show period ! this guy is not going to give his honest opinion on this subject because he’s an automotive journalist and is paid by the newspaper and magazine industry to write columns pertaining to the automotive industry .
March 16th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Its clear these guys are not going to be objective in thier covering of this issue - I just imported a 2008 Buick Enclave CLX and saved over $12,000 after
all fees were paid (the vehicle I purchased is about 40% more expensive where I live vs. 3hrs down the highway in the U.S.. If the dealerships won’t
complete on price, fine, let them close that part of thier business as dealerships have muitple profit centers (sales, service, parts) - let
only the competitive components stay open. Anyway the facts speak for themselves and Motoring TV is just losing any credibility on the issue.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 6:32 PM
To: ‘jim@motoringtv.com’
Cc: ‘graeme@motoringtv.com’; ‘brad@motoringtv.com’; ‘bill@mototingtv.vom’
Subject: Motoring for the manufacturers.. spend charity premium dollars to shop in Canada
Jim, jim, jim.. jimmy!
I used to think you had balance and balls.. now it’s hard to tell as we all shrivel to old age.
You surely are in the (unintentional I can only hope?) hip pocket of the manufacturers, and look like a yes man in front of the camera, sucking up your sumu raisins. So sad an end to an otherwise great career.
I also support the local dealers, but they are the new victims of the manufacturers, just like me. Fer chris’ sakes, stand up and fight along side us (not ‘US’) for the long-term good of Canadian Car Customers and Canadian Dealers. Change your glasses, you failing shortsighted shrimp shucker..
But, god bless anyway. Not much time left for us old crocks to ask for forgiveness, eh?
The old man
March 17th, 2008 at 8:20 am
March 16, 2008
Mr. Jim Kenzie,
I have just read the transcripts from your reply to Mr Robert Lamb. Let me say first, that I don’t agree with your position. What I do believe in, is a free market place, where a service or a commodity stands on its own merits, and I don’t believe that two wrongs make a right.
Sir, I work hard for my money, and I’m offended, that your position, and that of other’s, who don’t pay my bills are advocating that it’s alright to pay higher prices. If you want to do it, fly at it, fill your boots, but please stay the hell on your side of the fence, because you definitely have gone over to the dark side.
(1) Free Trade: is it? What is NAFTA
(2) Dealerships: will do alright but with less profit, there are not going to disappear. Stop the Scare tactics.
(3) When it comes to people who have bought previously, all I can say is, I can’t change what happen yesterday but I can influence what’s going to happen tomorrow.
Sincerely Yours
Mr G. Drake
March 17th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Hello Robert, I have been concerned for several months on the auto manufactures
reluctance to address the loonies rise. They seem to believe that so called
incentives, which are always time sensitive, are enough to appease us to feel
good about buying from a Canadian dealer. They must think we are literally
stupid because similar discounts are available across the border as well, no
one pays MRSP down there either. On another note I have noticed something very
interesting and hopeful, The new 2009 Dodge Journey’s base MRSP is almost
identical between the US and Canada, of coarse the delivery charge is still
about double in Canada. The reason I’m interested in this subject is that I
have a 10 year old Volvo that I need to replace. I started shopping around back
in November 2007 when all this came to light about the price disparity. I was
turned off buying immediately when I discovered one of the vehicles I was
interested in, the Honda Pilot, which is assembled in Ontario sells for a base
price in Seattle around 10,000 less than in the Vancouver area, ridiculous. I
looked into the other vehicles that I was interested in and found similar
discrepancies. Maybe what is happening is the manufactures believe they must
release a completely new model before they can adjust the MRSP so as not to
completely upset people that have bought at the higher price. Thank you for
keeping me informed and maybe with this new Dodge Journey there is hope on the
horizon.
Sincerely
Graeme Scott
March 17th, 2008 at 10:51 am
To: The old man:
Right on, you really stuck it to him.
You made my day and maybe my week.
I don’t know if Jim is in their hip pocket, however, he could be in their glove compartment.
I would suggest that after this morning’s e-mail he is probably in the trunk of a 2008 Corvette behind one of those 5 kmph bumpers that don’t meet Canadian standards.
I particularly enjoyed your phraseology such as:
“I used to think you had balance and balls” (priceless as a Canadian car)
You were right on and the fact that you call him Jimmy indicates that you know his true character.
My real favourite was “short sighted shrimp shucker” (maybe he needs daylight running lights)
You sure know how to turn a phrase.
He sure has started something and be-gorra his e-mail was swamped with complaints this morning. (probable the work of Leprechauns)
This is usually followed by the wail of the Banshee and the Cloven Hoof Syndrome.(not to be wished on anyone)
More power to the Canadian people who no longer will take any price gouging from unscrupulous dealers or unethical Journalism from the Media.
They will quickly discover that when they mess with us there are consequences and they will be quickly outclassed in all areas.
I write this in a calmest manner, however, when I am provoked I can be even more factual.
As mentioned before, you got him real good and on St Patrick’s Day at that.
Sure and be-gorra, tis a miracle.
Keep posting, we need factual humour.
Question: May I have your permission to use “shortsighted shrimp shucker” in the future?
March 17th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Gentlemen; I must say I’m truly disappointed in your show re telling Canadians to purchase their cars in Canada. I personally have done extensive research into car pricing here and in the US. I will be making my purchase on a new Honda or Toyota (Accord or Camary) in the near future. I don’t understand under what circumstance I would want to purchase locally.
An Acura MDX which is manufactured in Aliston Ontario is selling for $12K to $15 K less in the USA; my Accord is $8K less in the USA. With the NAFTA agreement I have the right to purchase a vehicle in Canada or USA based on price alone. I personally don’t have a problem paying higher if there is a justified reason. In the case of new cars, there are no justified reasons. It’s not so much the dealers I’m disappointed with it’s the manufacturers who set special rules, remove warranties, make it especially difficult to import for no other reason than they are able to because traditionally the only argument and logic was that the USA dollar was much higher. In the last 6 months this has not been the case. And the Canadians who care about their future and family would rather spend the $8K - $12K for their kid’s education or house renovations than giving it to the greedy car companies.
You gentlemen have more foolish money than the average Canadian. In the future you should present FACTS to the consumers and audience of your show.
From a very disappointed viewer.
Sincerely;
John
March 17th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
To me this is a case by case scenario. Some manufacturers have taken steps to incentive their way down to a more than acceptable price. People are too daft top look at places like carcostcanada.com and get quotes for up to 10k off of for example a subaru outback or an acura MDX. they would rather Just bitch and say go south!
When I bought for me to import would have been more trouble than it was worth for minor savings thanks to strong incentives.
People paint it like it is a guarantee so save 10k on your car and it is as easy as pie when that is not always true.
Like anything do your research. People who blindly say DON’T buy in canada are as PATHETIC as those that blindly say do.
March 17th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Importing a US Vehicle is easy:
Aaron: My dealer gave me the same presentation.
I was so impressed that I purchased my car in Plattsburgh at a saving of more than $5000.
Once you find a US dealer importing an admissible car is easy.
All paperwork is done by concerned parties.
Amen.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
From: Sarmad Elahi
To: jimkenzie@gmail.com
Cc: serge@bergeron.ca
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 7:15 PM
Subject: Your show Driving 2008 on TSN 2008-03-15
Hello Jim,
I have been watching your television program for the past 10 years. Usually when you speak I listen, but your recent comments and subsequent letter to Serge of Cars Without Borders (CWB) motivated me to say a few words that I hope you will give some thought to.
I believe that price difference between the US and Canada is not as complex an issue as some people make it to be, based on the following facts:
Major contributors to price difference:
Higher taxes in Canada for the auto companies
Lower volume of vehicles sold
Canada imposes import duty on cars manufactured outside North America
Minor contributors to price difference
Difference between CMVSS and FMVSS
More robust/different equipped Canadian models due to harsh Canadian climate
The above list captures almost all the major and minor contributors that give rise to the price difference. I am sure someone can come up with a few more minor things to add to the list but we are trying to simplify this not make it more complicated. Besides a couple of hundred dollars does not make any difference. The difference I am talking about is more like $8300 on a BMW 328i coupe on a MSRP of US$ 35.3K. That amounts to 23% higher price in Canada.
What really astonished me was the difference between the prices of options. For the below table, prices in Canada are from the Canadian BMW website and in US they are from the US BMW website. Goes without saying that Canadian prices are in Canadian dollars and vice versa for US.
Option Canada US
Comfort Access 750 500
Park Distance Control 450 350
I would really like to know why Canadians are being charged $250 more for Comfort Access than our cousins in US. I think that the Comfort Access offered in Canada is the same one as offered in US. Another example is Park Distance Control, Canadians are being charged $100 more.
I think you will notice that informed Canadian consumer is not asking for exact price match between the US and Canadian models. What we are looking for is a reasonable and justifiable difference. To give some idea of ‘reasonable difference’ add up the taxes at the border to import a vehicle, certification and licensing fee, cost for two trips to US including lodging and cost of inconvenience. This is what the price difference should amount to; of course this will be different for different vehicles.
Have you ever seen a manufacture try to justify their price difference for a particular model? We are tired of hearing statement like, “…we select certain options and features, on a model-by-model basis, that we believe are best suited for Canada’s challenging climatic and driving conditions.” this is Toyota’s response to an inquiry regarding price difference. This statement is very vague and is aimed at avoiding the question as opposed to helping in justifying the price difference. If it’s the challenging climatic and driving conditions causing the price discrepancy than there should not be any price difference between St. Catherine and Buffalo since driving and climatic conditions are not any different between these two cities.
I think part of the reason why some people think price difference is a complex issue is because the auto companies wants us to think that it is so.
I am in favor of supporting my local dealer all the way. My understanding of how dealerships make money is as follows:
Dealer’s profit is the difference between MSRP and dealer invoice. Usually dealers sell below MSRP. Dealer profit on new vehicles is very low as an example difference between MSRP and dealer invoice is about 6% on a Honda Accord LX. You can confirm this by obtained dealer invoice price from APA for a nominal fee.
Dealers make profit through their service departments not through selling new cars.
Manufacturer makes majority of the profit on new car sales
How to help dealer:
Pressure Auto manufacturer for lower MSRP. Lower MSRP encourages consumer to buy new cars helping dealer through higher volume new car sales and through servicing down the road.
Buy new cars whether in Canada or US. Consumers are more inclined to take new cars to dealers, for servicing and parts, so that they can keep new vehicle warranty intact.
How to prevent your local dealer from pulling his/her hair out:
· Pressure manufacturer to lower pricing. I would rather wait till pricing is justifiable close to across the border than whine to my dealer for the next couple of years and cause him/her to have a nervous breakdown. Dealerships have sales people who are from among us, they would like to give us a deal but it’s the manufacturer who is preventing the dealer from doing so by artificially inflating the MSRP.
I think in this situation dealer is caught between a rock and a hard place. I personally know a few auto sales people that wish prices were lower in Canada so dealers did not have to sell just above their invoice pricing. You heard it right Jim, higher prices are forcing dealers to cut down their own profit just to move units out of the showroom.
The only party making money on current MSRP is the manufacturer not the dealer. If the MSRP is adjusted downwards then dealer is not making any less money, certainly more money because they will not have to sell much below MSRP to move inventory.
Manufacturers are afraid that if they adjust the MSRP to more closely match US then they run the risk of loss, incase if the looney slides below US dollar. Manufacturers should be able to offset this risk by the extra profit they have been making on vehicles sold in the last couple of years.
Manufacturers are not selling for a loss in US. If we agree on the previous statement then the question that naturally arises is, what is the incentive for the manufacturers to restrict cross border vehicle movement? At the end of the day a unit sold is a unit sold. Do you think that BMW in Germany would care if the money they are receiving were through a sale in Canada or US? Certainly they will care if unit sold in Canada is bringing them more money. Besides this there is also the matter of keeping a healthy distributor network in Canadian market, but if this was a high priority then prices should have been adjusted a long time ago. (Sorry BMW for picking on you, I am a big fan of your vehicles.)
If manufacturers remove cross border sales restriction then prices should self adjust to a point where Canadian price is a little higher than US because of modifications required to bring cars into compliance with Canadian laws and regulations, this action by the manufacturer will also help the dealer that you seem so concerned about. The only reason manufacturer is not doing so is because they do not want to loose the extra profit they are making in Canada.
I for one will not purchase a new vehicle at the current price difference but if the prices are adjusted down, to a justifiable gap, then I will put a deposit down tomorrow. The only scenario in which I will purchase a new vehicle at current price is if the looney dropped to 80~85c US, that I can justify to myself.
I have no doubt in my mind that you say what you believe, but if what you believe is not based on facts then you are actually hurting the very people that you intended to help.
Thanks for your time and attention.
Sarmad Elahi
March 17th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Hello:
I was very disappointed to read they you continue to advise people to continue to buy their cars in Canada. My guess is that you are being supported by the car manufacturers.
I hope that you take a good look at the incredible disparity between Canadians and Americans when it comes to buying cars (20-30%). For example the 2008 Mercedes Benz S550 is MSRP in canada at 123,000 and in the us $ 87,525!!! 2008 Honda Accord EX-L 31,0990 in Canada and 25,060 in the US.
How can you, in all good conscience, ask that we tolerate this blatant inequity.
Sincerely,
K.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
cy,
I don`t need a dealer to give me any presentation, just like I don`t blindly take the word of some internet commando that I can save 15k on a car in the US. I spend roughly 40 hours a week researching car pricing and sales tends in the Us and Canada, incentives and all other things related to the auto market. When I buy a car it is a phonecall with an offer and that is it. thanks for your assumption though.
check the fact that the canadian auto market sales are up 13% year to date, and check incentive levels. Interesting potential correlation…
Fact is you need to do your research and in some cases the carrot you get from going to the US is not worth it. Sure is tough to swallow that pill here but it is true. I applaud the efforts here of course because it has helped get incentives here to close the gap. There is no question the gap still exists but in alot of cases it has been reduced - whereas especially with luxury makers it is still alive and well.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Aaron:
The fear of importing a vehicle from the USA has to be dispelled.
It is an easy task to import an admissible vehicle from the USA and requires no paperwork from the importer.
The Canadian dealers are at present still not competitive and have given us little incentive to purchase from them.
The dealers, Transport Canada and some of the Media have misled the public in stating that their are differences in the cars and that there are warranty problems.
This may be true in some cases, however, you can effect many repairs with a five or ten thousand dollar saving.
Since 1996 cars are equipped with OBDII systems and can be serviced by many different dealers.
I reference Katherine, Anna and Ed’s previous postings above as to the difficulty and savings involved.
It is not my intention to discourage anyone from buying Canadian
but only to mention any discrepancies involved.
March 19th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
I’m all for TV shows scaring the public into believing that it is difficult to import vehicles from the US. I despise car manufactures and government agencies that make up rules or create barriers to those who want to import a vehicle from the US. Myself and my family have saved $45000 by purchasing new/used vehicles from the US and importing them into Canada and as long as Canadian Manufactures continue to price vehicles in Canada much higher then US prices, then the value of these imported vehicles continues to be high. However, if Car manufactures finally get onside and drastically reduce prices to the same level as they are in the US. What happens to the value of those vehicles I imported or those individuals who just purchased the same vehicle in Canada for thousands more. Imagine I was the guy who paid $123000CDN for the S550 in Katherine’s post above and next month Mercedes Benz drops the price to $88000CDN to match the US price. I think I’d be pretty pissed that I just lost $35000 in depreciation in one month.
We obviously agree that there are not many “big” cost differences for most manufactures between selling a vehicle in Canada or the US, so why didn’t/couldn’t car manufactures price the Canadian equivalent vehicle similarly with the US as the dollar fluctuates? Yes, I agree manufactures have inventories of vehicles which were received at a potentially lower CDN$ value, however, over the long run as the CDN$ fluctuates the cost will be offset when the CDN$ falls against the US$.
As a result of manufactures unwillingness to fluctuate prices more constantly there is now a large gap in price between the same vehicle in Canada and the US. So car manufactures are “somewhat” stuck. It all manufactures dropped their prices in line with the US price, immediately, all those individuals over the last 3-4 months who have purchased a new or used vehicle in Canada or the US, will see the value of their vehicle drop by an equal amount.
So to Car TV shows keep those scare tactics up, Car manufactures you’ve really screwed things up and government agencies stop trying to introduce stupid rules making it more difficult for the average person who is willing to import a vehicle. Then, as a result, those who are willing to do the research and import a vehicle are happy, those who are unwilling to do the research pay through the nose and keep our car dealers in business and car prices up and all those used car owners in Canada don’t get stuck with a vehicle that is all of the sudden worth 35% less then it was worth yesterday.
Manufactures were to slow, to stupid or unwilling to react to the changing value in the dollar when it was occurring so now a huge price gap exists and unfortunately there is no quick and easy solution to fix it. So unless you don’t own any car right now, in which case I am sure you’d welcome a 35% reduction in the price of cars across the board, I’d think you wouldn’t want a 35% reduction in the value of the vehicle you currently do own.
March 20th, 2008 at 12:26 am
The problem with investments is that sometimes they don’t pan out. We all know that cars are poor investments and some cars depreciate much quicker than others. Most people who have bought their cars within the past year or so surely would suspect that prices might come down with the high Canadian dollar. Do they lose out because of depreciation….probably, but this is the nature of the beast, so to speak. Should those folks that are looking for a car pay more and suffer because somebody bought their car when prices were foolish? Well, if you bought your car already you would shout that it would only be fair….but why should future buyers pay for the mistakes made by manufacturers and those who were gouged?
Manufacturers need to grow some brass balls and address the price gouging and, in turn, effectively stop the importing. If they don’t, importing will continue and I can’t blame anyone who goes this route.