Jan 12
The Secret Is Out - Canadian Toyota Dealer sells U.S.!
Cornwall Toyota admits in local paper ad that they are shopping in the USA for used cars. Very good for their customers and for them. Why not go all the way with fair pricing on all cars in Canada? Any comments anyone?
January 12th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Finally, what we have suspected all along! Glad to see one Canadian dealer is coming out of the closet! I suspect many many more will follow. I wonder about these dealers changing the safety “label” (from US to Canada ) and selling at highly inflated prices. Wonder how the RIV treats these guys? To bad the RIV doesn’t publish numbers accurately. It would be nice to know which dealers are doing this and really gouging Canadians. Maybe they are all retired RIV and TC employees?
The big Question is can he get me one of the new 2009 Corolla coming out next month?
January 12th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Just yesterday, I had a conversation with a staff member of the local newspaper in Victoria, B.C. The topic of conversation was that the local paper, had recently removed from the paper, an ad run by a small independent dealer, who was advertising his services, in importing used vehicles. Apparently one of the large franchised dealers had complained to the paper, so the advertising manager pulled the ad. This is an alarming thing to happen in a country, where freedom of expression is an immensely essential component, of our constitution and our way of life. For thirty years, I have advertised my Canadian collector cars, in American magazines. If Canadian newspapers can refuse the advertising of American cars, for sale, then American publications can refuse the advertising of Canadian cars, for sale,in their newspapers, magazines, and other media. This could be extended to other Canadian products. Just imagine, the impact on Canadian exporters, if they were not permitted to advertise Canadian products in America. Importing and exporting are a vital part of the economies of all countries and must not be compromised by local newspapers, favoring a General Motors dealer, by refusing the advertising of a small independent dealer, because the small independent dealer has the nerve to try to tell the public that he imports vehicles, also. After all, the General Motors dealer and the Ford dealer and the Chrysler dealers and the other big dealers, all sell imported cars, that are imported for them, by the manufacturers. Freedom to advertise a legitimate business service involving imported vehicles must not be prevented, by a newspaper that bows to the pressure of a foreign owned manufacturer, just because that manufacturer does not want the competition. Congratulations to Cornwall Toyota for having the courage to run their advertisement, more congratulations to the Cornwall newspaper for refusing to give in to the foreign owned multinationals and shame on the Times Colonist of Victoria, B.C. for pulling the ad of a small independent, out of the newspaper, after just one day, just because, one of the big advertisers in your newspaper, didn’t want the competition. Where is, “The Competition Board Of Canada” and why are they not protecting the freedoms of Canadians, in this situation, as they are supposed to be doing ???? Have the manufacturers been able to silence the Competition Board, too ???
January 12th, 2008 at 11:16 am
Yes, the Manufacturers have silenced the Competition Board, the Auditor General (good old Shiela.. bites on this one! ) , and many more Govt. departments. All they do is threaten to stop manufacturing cars in Canada! Then the unions, NDP, Green Party Liberals and Conservatives (you too Flaherty ) and all the lemmings put their heads in the sand! Does anyone really stand up for the Canadian Public! Take a look at the records of the CAA, APA and other Consumer groups… were were they when we asked for help back in October 2007? Some didn’t even read our e-mails!
We don’t need to waste more taxpayers money on a Mulroney Public inquiry. We all know what is going on there! But what about the RIV, Transport Canada and the Car Boys! Maybe the Mulroney thing is just a ploy by Harper. He can avoid handling the really tough issues like Fair Automobile Pricing for Canadians!
January 12th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Robert,
A franchised Toyota dealer should be treated by the RIV,exactly the same as a small independent, which is exactly the same, as a private individual. I remember being in line, at a Canadian Tire store, in Victoria, with a salesman from one of the local General Motors dealers, who was importing a car for his dealership. He had to go through exactly the same process, that everyone else did. If, however, the vehicle had been imported for him by the manufacturer, then he would have skipped the RIV and Canadian Tire, altogether. According to Transport Canada regulations, a manufacturer can import all the used vehicles, that they want to import, tens of thousands of them, if they want and as long as the the vehicles are ones, for which, they are considered to be the original manufacturer, or for which they have an agreement with the original manufacturer, who has stated that the vehicle conform, then they do not need to deal with RIV, period. For example, when the U.S. dollar was strong, we used to sell thousands of used vehicles to the Americans. Independent Canadian exporters were forced and still are, to use a “U.S.Registered Importer”, to do the importing, for them. The U.S.Registered Importers charge several hundred dollars per vehicle, to do the paperwork. Some of them, were even charging as much as a thousand dollars, per vehicle, for awhile. Apparently, when Ford Motor Company took back thousands of used vehicles, as lease returns, from Canadian customers, all across Canada, they “ran them across the border” to sell them at dealer auctions, in the U.S., so that they could get more money for them, in the U.S., than they could get for them, at the dealer auctions in Canada. Because they were the original manufacturer, they did not have to submit their importations, to “U.S.Registered Importers”, or pay the fees and costs, normally associated with and faced by independent exporters/importers, when trying to do the same thing. If we remember that I found and posted, elsewhere on this website, (or the Forum, I can’t remember, which,) the announcement that quite some time, ago, Ford had contracted for Livingston to do their customs brokering, for them, we can be sure that Ford has been getting a much better deal and a much smoother ride, from Livingston, than we are have.
January 12th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Hi guys, Correct me if I am wrong, but the Cornwall dealer is about used cars
and as such it has nothing to do with the issue of immobilizer.. right?
My understanding is any one of us can go to US and import a car, a used one
I mean without trouble right?
I called a few shops asking about used vehicles. They were all OK to sell to me
May be this is the lead to something bigger and not as obvious about
the “deal” between car manufacturers, RIV, and dealers both sides of the border
January 12th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Reading these comments about the pressure the dealers can put on a newspaper, I can not help but wonder what pressure Livingston (RIV) is facing from the manufacturer.
January 12th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
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January 12th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
You are to right, to keep wondering about it and that is precisely why I keep calling out for a public inquiry, into what I know is an outrageous example of illegal conspiracies by a Government Ministry, a contractor of a government ministry and a manufacturer, who does business, with that certain government contractor, other manufacturers and newspapers, who receive substantial revenues, from the same manufacturers and are dependent, for all of this being able to happen, on a Minister of Transport and in the past, on previous Ministers of Transport, who either are, or have been, part of a grand scheme to deceive and defraud Canadians, of literally billions of dollars, of hard earned savings, unless of course, said Ministers of Transport are, or have been, simply ignorant, or too incompetent, or too powerless, against unknown forces, within, or from outside their respective ministries, to stop this mafia like process.
January 12th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I think we have to come to a political action “campaign” that adds additional pressure - Rob just chime in as you already started this with results … I think the best bet is to address the MPs in ridings that have had a small margin for the conservatives to win - and other significant ridings like Harper’s. Maybe we should post this “campaign” in the forum as well. We also should have a way to identify which riding the CWB members are in for coordination. I am just sick and tired of a Government that sits on its behind and does absolutely nothing for its Citizens (or small business for that matter) and am glad to hear I am not the only one … power by numbers.
January 12th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
QUOTE
“5. Trung says:
January 12th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Hi guys, Correct me if I am wrong, but the Cornwall dealer is about used cars
and as such it has nothing to do with the issue of immobilizer.. right?
My understanding is any one of us can go to US and import a car, a used one
I mean without trouble right?
I called a few shops asking about used vehicles. They were all OK to sell to me
May be this is the lead to something bigger and not as obvious about
the “deal” between car manufacturers, RIV, and dealers both sides of the border”
ANSWER:
Yes…the cars in the ads all have about 30,000 on them per ad.
Check the RIV VAFUS list http://www.riv.ca to see if a used car can be imported. The RIV Admissable list addresses all of the issues including the immobilizer.
http://www.carswithoutborders.com has alot of info for you to read to learn about the ins and outs of importing a car. It also has links to other sites that will provide you with the info you need to know what to do to get the car you want into Canada…provided it is on the RIV Admissable list.
U.S. dealers have been reluctant to sell new cars to Canadians because of their manufacturers franchise..even though the Sherman Anti-trust Act in the U.S. looks unfavourably on this…eventually I expect the DOJ in the U.S. will be onto this after some dealer has his francise pulled or his vehicle allocation reduced.
Make sure you let your MP know about the pricing differential ..www.ataleoftwoprices.com
January 12th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Here’s what bugs me the most here. I’ve known of 2 other dealers - one Subaru dealer in Quebec that imports many BMW from the US, and then one Winnipeg Nissan Dealer that helped a customer get his 2007 Camry from the US. So now Cornwall Toyota admits it - congratulations on this admission. So let’s say they all do it… Let’s say BMW, GM, Honda and others do it, then why would they make you feel guilty when you come in with your US import for maintenance. Mike Buffy I think you have a hard time with your BMW dealer? So why this 2 faced approach. They want to keep the big profits for themselves. We knew the Car Manufacturers were very greedy but now we know with certainty that the dealers are also greedy or is it called hungry. Everyone wants business - so let the market place go freely. Let consumers buy where they want. I tell you if I wanted a used Toyota I will certainly call Cornwall Toyota and I encourage others to call and drive a hard bargain but still let’s buy in Canada where the dealer gives you a good deal - a deal that is at PAR with the US. I prefer to pay a commission to the Canadian dealer than the US dealer - as we all do. Come on all CANADIAN dealers - give us the deals and we will buy from you in Canada. Let’s hope more come out of the closet.
January 12th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Remember that at large franchised dealerships, there is always the new car department and the used car department and they are completely separate, with separate managers and separate sales staff. At such dealerships, the new car department is prevented from selling any thing other than what the manufacturer sends to them and they are literally at the mercy of what the manufacturer charges them and forces them to charge, for the vehicles. The used car side, can purchase used cars, wherever they want and they are free to shop for the best deals, any where, in North America. They are subject to the same import process, that we are faced with, unless in a rare case, the manufacturer offers to import for them, in order to avoid the RIV nonsense. It is understandable that the new vehicle sales staff would be resentful, when confronted with increasing numbers of vehicles, brought to their dealership, for service, that were purchased elsewhere, in many cases, at prices below, what the Canadian dealers have to pay the manufacturers for them. The used vehicle sales staff do not have the same constraints, placed upon them and so are more than pleased to become involved in importing, as they are free to do and therefore, they get involved, import some cars and sell them and earn a living doing it, just as they should be doing.
January 12th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Can some dealer get me a used 2009 Toyota Corolla with 200 miles on it! So what is the definition of used? 100 miles and 6 months? A car with more than one owner?
On a side note: I wonder if TC and the RIV are getting ready for the 2009s…God help us!
January 12th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
I think that the used car network has probably been importing used US vehicles for years. When I imported my new Honda in Oct 2007, the US border agent had to go through numerous pages in his book to find my vehicle. He stated that one dealer he knows of brings up at least 6 car carriers per week of used US vehicles
January 13th, 2008 at 1:20 am
12 Robert lamb say:
Can some dealer get me a used 2009 Toyota Corolla with 200 miles on it! So what is the definition of used? 100 miles and 6 months? A car with more than one owner?
On a side note: I wonder if TC and the RIV are getting ready for the 2009s…God help us!
I happened to talk to one of the dealers in NH about buying a new 2007
I was told the dealer would not be allowed to sell it to me. It has to be used. My interpretation would then be that “used” means pre-owned.
Not sure about other dealers in other states though.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:57 am
If you have nothing better to do with your time walk onto the lot of any used car
dealer in the country. My favorites are the ones that squeal the loudest about how
importing a car from the US is fraught with dangers and hassles. Look for the premium
cars and write down a few VINs. Get a 30 unlimited pass to Carfax and start looking up the origins
of the cars and you will quicly find that 80%+ have been imported from the US. As a
matter of fact Andrew, there is a lot on Government street in Victoria where every single
car has been imported.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Hello Craig,
You have written some excellent letters and I have praised you for them. Why are you now aiming criticism at Canadian auto dealers and in particular, me and my car lot on Government Street. ???? I thought that we were all working together on this, ??? I have exported several hundred cars and trucks, over the years and imported some, as well. Is there something wrong with that, ??? or is it that I have been warning my customers about the problems we face, in importing ??? I have recently been considering advertising my services, in importing vehicles for customers, however, I have refrained from doing so, for the time being, as I can not rely on the system, that we have in place, in order to fill orders and deliver vehicles, in a timely fashion. The process, is so unpredictable and unreliable, at the moment, that I have been warning my customers, to try to make sure that they understand the difficulties and that I don’t order a vehicle, for someone, that can not be delivered, promptly. Craig, I am curious, as to your remarks, with reference, to my inventory. It is the manufacturers and Transport Canada, who are the cause of the enormous price differential between the Canadian and U.S. markets, not small independent Canadian dealers.
January 14th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Budds’ Subaru in Oakville is next door to Peninsula Import Motors, which sells brand new US model Subarus at prices well below the CDN price and thousands over the US price. When I called to ask about changing speedometers to metric, the Peninsula service guy said that they do it in their Subaru dealership part of the service department.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Andrew,
I think you are misunderstanding me. My criticism was of dealers who try and prevent
Canadians from importing cars by providing false information about the process,
charging excessive fees for modifications, and/or supporting the actions of the
manufacturers in requiring letters of admissibility or recall letters - and then
selling the very same product out the back door.
Vendors such as yourself who are honest about the process and work for the benefits
of Canadians I have no issue with.
I hadn’t immediately drawn the relationship between you and the lot on Government street
so I apologize for that but I wasn’t trying to be critical of that operation, only
pointing out that the type of service exists!
January 15th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Hello Craig,
Thank you for clarifying your thoughts for me. I agree with you 100%. I am hoping that very soon, we can get a really strong movement underway to correct this situation. It is completely unacceptable, that in Canada, a country that we are so proud of, that we have a government that is willing to tolerate and actually become involved in and become a part of, activities that are so corrupt and dishonest. Craig, please feel free to give me a call, if would like to. My number is in the book. Maybe we can exchange some ideas, on how to tackle this problem.
Andrew
January 15th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Mr. Timmins - I have also been reading all of your comments on this blog and in the forum. If we had all dealers like you, we would not have to shop in the USA to get good prices. Thanks for the honest discussions. We are learning a lot with this excellent communication tool and CWB - all of us together will make a difference - although it may take more time to get true fair pricing.
January 15th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
A vehicle is considered used once it has been titled. It has nothing to do with its age, year or mileage. New cars come from the manufacturer with a MSO(manufacturers statement of origin), not a title or ownership. Once a car is sold for the first time to a non dealer, the MSO becomes a title or an ownership. There for, a new car with 1 mile can be legally considered used.
January 15th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
To identify a Canadian market vehicle, all vehicles manufactured for the Canadian market have a makeshift maple leaf sticker inside the drivers door jam area near the vehicle information(VIN) sticker.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:15 am
I have just learned some interesting things about the history of Livingston International and it’s relationship to the auto industry. I am going to try to find out as much as I can about this company and I urge everyone else, who is concerned, to try to do so, as well. We need to know a lot more, for it seems, that there is a lot more. Please, every one, do your research on Livingston, it’s early role and it’s past and current relationships, with the world’s major automotive manufacturers.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:19 am
Hello Serge,
Thank you for your friendly comments. We all need to encourage each other, to keep this thing going and achieve victory. As a very famous, Martin Luther King, once said,….WE SHALL OVERCOME !!!!!
March 30th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
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