Dec 19
Day 75 … Here it is! Form 2
 Thank-you everyone that contributed to our cause
I just received the following attached to an e-mail from Natasha at the RIV. 
    
  Â
 cmvss-114.pdf   Â
Note:Â The CBC just left a few minutes ago. Please check out the National Tonight.Â
Please let us know how your case stands! Once you have your form 2 or plates let us know! If you are still having an issue let us know, our objective is to make sure everyone is plated. Our objective is to help ensure fair pricing for Canadians.Â
We still have lots of work to do. Have a great Holiday, get a good rest. Serge and I wish you and your families all a safe and happy holiday!
P.S. we are hearing of some stories that the RIV is not releasing all models - Bob and I will get at that first thing tomorrow AM - RIV - TC . Good night.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Congratulations to all. Hope you get your plates by Christmas.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Educate me a little please,I purchased a 2008 Toyota tacoma pick up,Small amount of cash down,the vehicle sits on a lot in the US.I emailed TC and Riv 5x plus,MP contacted ,i have the bill of sale yet never proceeded to import due to the not admissible list,The truck has an immobilizer unit on it ,will RIV be up dateing the list???and yes thanks to all who kept the push and keep pushing
December 19th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
Bravo Robert - see I told you it would be today. Please enjoy the car - you have worked so hard my friend.
Serge
December 19th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Awesome job guys! If it weren’t for your hard work, I wouldn’t have a choice of where to spend my money this coming spring. Maybe now that the manufacturers can’t hide behind this law it will finally force them into taking more agreeable action, like, gee I don’t know, pricing their cars more appropriately? Even if that doesn’t happen, at we have a choice again thanks to the efforts of the people at this site. Thanks also goes to Transport Canada for finally doing the right thing, even if it did take a little bit of prodding and nudging.
This is a great victory for the Canadian consumer.
December 19th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
I forgot to ask, does this mean the manufacturers will be forced to remove cars from the RIV list that meet this new law or will RIV do this?
December 19th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
Mes félicitations pour l’excellent travail que vous avez fait tout au long de ce périple. Vous avez fait preuve de persévérence sur des droits que nous avions. Avec votre site Internet, nous avions l’heure juste sur les développements, en plus de nous donner une assurance que nous étions écoutés, et même lus par le personnel du Ministère des Transports.
Je viens également de recevoir mon formulaire 2, ce qui me permet d’immatriculer maintenant mon nouveau Honda.
Chapeau, et un énorme merci à vous tous.
N.B. En espérant que les haut fonctionnaires du RIV prendront cet exemple pour améliorer le processus d’importation.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Anyone has an idea if RIV list will be updated to reflect these changes?
December 19th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Here is the link on the discussions by gov’t burried in the least likely of places.
http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html
Still yet to be made into law but it boils down to, if I read it correct, if it has compliant immobilizer in the states, it does not need to match the CMVSS114. Rather, if no immobilzer is on it, then it puts you back into the inadmissable list most likely. So, buy it with an immobilzer and you should be good. I am not a legal-type so read it for yourself. The reference to this page is in the TofC released today…
December 19th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
After reading Robert’s PDF cmvss-114.pdf, I will correct myself. You are stillr equired to show in some way it has one as listed in the pdf. Still better as you only need one of the methods stated to verify at the border that an immobilzer is installed. Great work all… Now for the ecorebate…
December 19th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Robert congratulations. This is a big victory for you and your team. Enjoy your car.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
A huge thank-you to Robert and others that contributed to this success through the lobbying efforts of Cars Without Borders. I am convinced that wIthout you guys, TC would not have made the change or it would have taken a lot longer.
As soon as I got the press release I went to the bank and got a bank draft for the balance owing on my 2008 Buick Enclave and made the 2 hour drive each way to Calais Maine. My paper work is now at the US Customs so I should be able to get my vehicle home on Saturday after the 72 hour wait. I’ll sleep a lot better tonight knowing i am not going to loose my deposit.
GREAT JOB!!
December 19th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Well done & Congratulations! I’m so happy for you! Enjoy your day tomorrow at CT and the Bureau.
Whew!
December 19th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
What does this mean for those of us that want to buy 2008 vehicles manufactured after Sept 1, 2007?
Does this mean that the RIV list will be updated and the issue of non-compatible American/Canadian
immobilzers?
Or is this ruling/change only of benefit to people who purchased a car in the fall of 2007?
December 19th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
I am looking to buy a 2008 vehical manufactured after Sep 1, 2007 but I am waiting for the admissible list to be updated. Hope it will happen soon.
December 19th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Robert
May the Lord Bless you hundreds of times. if I can help you in any way let me know. I just got my Form 2.
December 19th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Way to go guys and stick it to the man! Democracy at work!
I’m looking forward to buying a new Toyota Tacoma in the spring. I’ll wait until the RIV list is updated first. Keep us informed on how the rest of the process goes.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Thank you very much Robert and the whole team!
Has anyone imported a Acura MDX which is built after September 1, 2007 and gotten form 2 yet?
Thanks in advance.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
We got our Form 2 tonight! Rob called RIV after our son’s Christmas concert (after 9pm Winnipeg time). Many thanks to all that worked on the CWB team and particular thanks to Bob and Serge and Cy and Carl for their immobilizer work!
December 20th, 2007 at 7:40 am
Congradulations Robert!! You and your team deserve all the credit for spearheading this movement. I do not think we would have gotten this far without you. Glad to hear you got your form 2, can’t wait till I get mine. Cheers!!!!
December 20th, 2007 at 7:45 am
I propose Robert and Serge for the Order of Canada for their public service work.
Is the RIV list final? If so, why is the Toyota Sienna XLE inadmissible? It has the full immobilizer anti-theft system.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:30 am
Thank you Robert, Serge and the entire team for leading to this stage!
Has anyone with Toyota Sienna LE or XLE received Form 2 yet?
Both have Engine Immobilizer (XLE may have additional Alarm System, but not sure what’s the difference).
December 20th, 2007 at 9:28 am
Thank you Robert and Serge,great team work.Just got my Form 2 for the Acura
MDX.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Great job Robert and group but this is far from over.
I ordered and put down a sizable down payment on a vehicle Oct 25th 2007
before they changed all the rules. I contacted RIV and my MP etc along with the
whole carswithoutborders group.
Here is the response to my letter to the RIV.
as of today Dec 20th.
Hi Richard,
Did you import the vehicle yet? The proposal was for the Canadian who already have imported and have a file with RIV.
If you have not imported your vehicle then the admissibility list remains the same.
Regards
Christina Lima
Team Lead, Registrar of Imported Vehicles
405 The West Mall, Suite 400
Toronto, ON M9C 5K7
Fax: 416-626-0366
1-888-848-8240
mailto:clima@riv.ca
As you can see according to the RIV the only people that have been
granfathered are those that had a case #. The rest of us have been left out.
OUCH
December 20th, 2007 at 11:16 am
We have sent an e-mail to T.C. and RIV personnel for clarification, please refer to the document above cmvss-114.pdf when dealing with the RIV. I am surprised, I am hoping that right now they want to clear up the 2 or 4 thousand people that have cars in their garages. The amendment was not inended to only grandfather those already in Canada, please reads Mr. Cannon’s words.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Richard;
The RIV is clearly wrong on their response to you. The regulation change is for any vehicle, not just those that had a file open with the RIV. As long as the vehicle has an electronic immobilizer system that meets the US standards it is good to go. It is still a little grey for those that have no system, whether the manufacturers still have the potential to block their import.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:21 am
Called riv and guy told me that “they expect updated list probably after 26th”. So I am assuming that this change should also apply to cars that will be (!) imported. I have a downpayment on car and waiting for a list to be updated.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Thanks for all your support but we are dealing with TC and RIV.
As we have all learnt through this process that the answers are hard to come by.
As you read from my other note The RIV supervision is not accepting the changes
as a global change.
Robert I hope that you can get this clarified as I am playing telephone tag
with all involved. You know Press 1 Press 2 Press 1 to get a message.
one day on a high the next day digging our way out of another hole.
Richard
December 20th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
RIV must be instructed by TC to use the document that Robert received and posted on CWB which gives the new set of Explanations.
A simple solution is to get the VAFUS updated with this new set of Explanations. Whoever came up with this document obviously has the power to make changes to VAFUS. VAFUS already says “see Explanations” for most vehicles so putting the new Explanations in will do the job as an interim measure.
I am incredulous that we have seen the VAFUS list changed on a daily basis when it suits the manufacturers but now, when it needs to be changed to facilitate implementation of a Canadian law that benefits Canadians, it is not being changed - we still have a Dec. 12 dated list!!
Without spending a lot of time and relying on the manufacturers (who will stonewall till the cows come home), RIV cannot possibly know which vehicles have or can have a factory-installed VIS. So, that’s why the new Explanations say let the inspection service (i.e. Canadian Tire) do it as part of the inspection - that makes total sense.
My patience is about up on this. We have let processes run their due course but this delay and yet more misinformation is absolutely unacceptable. Yet another example of a golden opportunity to set things right going up in flames. Why are our public servants intent on stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Congat! everyone!! Thanks!
Since we can import car form US, Can anyone who brought a brand new HONDA telling me which dealer you brought it from? Did you have to pay full MSRP or pay profit form the invoice price?
Thanks for you looking
December 20th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
David and Frances, I just got my Form 2 by email for my Sienna XLE. Hope you get yours soon.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
This morning I called the Honda dealer in New York State where I bought my Honda Civic Ex in October 2007.
I asked him if he was still selling to Canadians and he said no.
Their franchise agreement no longer allows them to sell to Canadians.
When I bought my car they had already received a letter from Honda in this regard.
When Transport Canada realized that their Immobilizer hoax was not working, they reverted to other means to protect the Canadian manufacturers and dealers but not Canadian buyers.
May I suggest the following:
Get on the net and type in Honda Civic EX US pricing.
Get a printout and take it to your Canadian Honda Dealers and ask them to match the prices. Don’t forget to get the option prices separately.
ex: Printout dated 12/20/2007 today, the price for 2008 Honda Civic EX automatic is:
MSRP: $19,510 US Note:
Invoice: $17,955 US
Note: US/Cdn Dollar are now at par (per TSE)
Source: usnews.ranking
See RED TAG
Good Luck.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Cy, the method you are suggesting will most likely be thrown back in your face.
The Canadian dealers already know you can not purchase a Honda from the U.S. Therefore showing them US pricing means nothing. If the salesmen decides to be a bit on the rude side, he/she will tell you to go and purchase the car from the internet, knowing well in advance Honda has a non compete clause in effect. Its a loose-loose situation.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Ng, we are only trying to get a price comparison for future reference.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Are these franchise agreements legal? Everybody, refrain yourself from buying locally
and let these local dealer inventories rot. You will then see prices going down.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Honda dealers in the US have been told by Honda of America not to sell to Canadians under threat of losing their franchise, financial penalties, and/or limiting allotments of fast selling vehicle models. I made a deal on a 2006 Ridgeline back in May of 2006 only to have my deposit returned when they realized I was going to export to Canada. I now have a new Honda Ridgeline purchased from the same dealer registered and insured in my possesion. This had to be done under the guise of a friend in the USA buying it for his own use, and then selling it to me. Makes you feel like you are doing something illegal, but the real crooks are Honda of Canada and Honda of America. In the end I saved thousands of $$ and stuck it up Hondas butt. Even though my deal was done in October on a vehicle built before Sept 1st I fully support all your efforts at stopping the manufacturers from ripping off Canadians and making Transport Canada realize they work for us, not the manufacturers. I would like to see an exec. from Honda explain the price difference. You can be sure they are watching these websites. Honda makes a good vehicle, but their execs are liars and thieves. The internet is a great tool for fighting these injustices.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Congratulations to you all
December 20th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
I was told a flat-out “no” that Canadians can buy new from US dealers. So I set up a limited liability company with a US address, which bought the truck from the dealer and subsequently sold it to me. A $750 premium but still saved $7,800 (all expenses included). Now if I can only get it across the border (Tacoma’s are still listed as inadmissible).
December 20th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Woooo Hooo!!
Chalk another one up for the good guys!!!
Just recd. my Form 2 (2008 Maxima, Sept. 2007 build). Goes without saying to say Thanks to all of you (especially Robert, Serge and Jan) who helped and were with me, but I’ll say it anyway - THANK YOU !!
Amarjit
December 20th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Bill:
Perhaps you can “rent out” your limited liability company with the US address to purchase new vehicles for other Canadians and easily recoup your $780.
P.S. My vehicle is technically a used vehicle so my dealer can sell it to me, but it is not very used. When I did up the paperwork it had a total of 78 miles on it. I am saving approx $15,000 Canadian on the deal.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
There are ways to get a new Honda (insert smiley face and perhaps little man with raised middle finger looking at Hond USA)
I hope RIV gets on the correct page soon. The amendment clearly does not have any conditions about file numbers and purchase dates.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Just received my Form 2, after purchasing my Seinna 2008 on October 14, 2007. Very releived and excited.Thanks so much for everything!
Kelly
December 20th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
I would like to thank Robert and Serge, and everyone that is part of the this group. I got my form 2 this afternoon, and now my 2008 Toyota Tacoma has plates.
Merry Christmas,
Mike
December 20th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Got mine, too (2008 Sienna LE). Thanks again!!!
December 20th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
True story…
My boss priced out a new Truck about 2 weeks ago, not know that at that time it wasnt importable, which I informed him. So he waited till I advised him other wise. So yesterday I advised him that it looks like we won and the list should change and now GM dealer has told him that the same truck has gone up in price…. $12000 more, lol! Looks like GM couldn’t beat us with abusing our government… now they’re into their dealers again. We currently have our GM’s and I tell you all now, I well never purchase another GM product again… I’m so tired of thier bullshit.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
[…] further if you like….. edit: Uh oh, potential issue in the works……read this post…. Cars without borders - Autos sans frontières Day 75 … Here it is! Form 2 Last edited by cliff clavin : Today at 11:18 […]
December 21st, 2007 at 12:47 am
We too received our Form 2 yesterday for a 2008 Acura MDX. We purchased it from a US Acura Dealer who had no issues with selling to Canadians. Thank-you Robert and Serge for your efforts. Your incredible efforts have obviously been successful and brought peace and happiness to many stressed Canadians. A great achievement with great timing!
December 21st, 2007 at 3:22 am
Maria,
Would you mind telling us which Us Acura did you buy it from?
December 21st, 2007 at 8:01 am
Thanks to everyone..I plated my 08 Tacoma. All is well sure
was glad to finaly see a form 2. Just goes to show.
We do have a voice when we sing together!!!!
December 21st, 2007 at 9:45 am
We also recieved our form 2, Thank you to all who helped in this fight, and a special thanks to the carswithoutborders team. We couldn’t have done it without you!!
December 21st, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Update list has just been posted on RIV website
December 31st, 2007 at 1:23 am
Hi Intls -
Sorry for the delay in replying - I was not checking the site over the holidays. I don’t mind telling you which Acura dealership, but don’t want to do it on this site just in case they may get into trouble. If you are interested, please post and we will figure out how to contact each other.
January 7th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Hi Maria,
I am also looking for MDX. I have been working it for near two monthes but not very successful. The last dealer I contacted promissed to sell me one before I sent money but changed mind after got my full money. I am now fighting with him to get the money back. If you don’t mind please tell me your dealer information. I will try one more time and then give up the MDX. Thanks in advance. email:sk678@yahoo.com
January 7th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Hi Maria,
Sorry, my email is sk678m@yahoo.com.
Thanks!