Dec 14
Don’t Stop Believing!
- As we finish off our week, We are hoping and believing that sanity will prevail on this very bizarre situation. We have asked the Folks at T.C. for an update sometime today so that we can keep everyone informed and this is what we received. update-to-my-request-2007-12-14.pdf
- It is not what we want to hear, there seems to be many positives, but there are some stakeholders that want to prevent you and I from registering our cars and spoil our Christmas. We all know what happened to Mr. Scrooge!
December 14th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
I can’t believe we are at this stage again, I think we are all aware that parliament breaks for Christmas as of today, and what happens on Monday?
We are back again to confidental and no time frame, of course we are only the General Public and we do not need to know, talk about being treated like second class citizens AGAIN!!!
Of course I am frustrated as see my plans for the holidays go down the tubes, but I would like to thank you for all the encouragement and help and consideration you have show towards my cause and of course the cause of a lot of other families.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
I will continue to be optimistic that the regulation change will be registered next week. I agree with you Robert that surely sanity will prevail here. The fact that TC set the comment period to only 15 days where as it is normally much longer, indicates to me that they must plan to get it in place before the Public Servants take off for their Christmas breaks on December 21st. The fact that Parliament breaks today I don’t think is a problem because the regulation change doesn’t have to be voted on there.
It does appear from Dan Davis’ comments re some stakeholders having differing points of view, that the manufacturers are still trying to block this regulation. At some point I hope that TC realizes that they cannot believe a lot of what the manufacturers are telling them, (like when they say that some vehicles that have the same immobilizer in the US as in Canada are not safe to import) and that TC as a regulatory body will stop “letting the fox guard the hen house”.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
Dear Mr. Hamilton: Thank you for your recent email to our company. Toyota Canada sets its prices the Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) for its vehicles based on competitive factors in the Canadian market. However, the recent weakening of the US dollar and resulting narrowing of the US and Canadian exchange rate recently has made the purchase of products in the US attractive to Canadian consumers. You may be interested to know that Toyota vehicles distributed in the US and Canada may not have identical equipment or meet the same regulatory requirements. When Toyota Canada considers equipment on Toyota vehicles for the Canadian market, we select certain options and features, on a model-by-model basis, that we believe are best suited for Canada’s challenging climatic and driving conditions. In the long term, it is our goal to be competitive in the marketplace. Clearly, rapid changes in currency rates can have a significant effect on each market, but generally we believe pricing reflects conditions in any given market. However, just as we do not speculate on future models, we do not speculate on future pricing activity. We hope this information is helpful to you. Sincerely, Alice McNameeCustomer Interaction CentreToyota Canada >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on 2007-12-05-13.32.53.000000, pbrmeasap24@hotmail.com (TIM HAMILTON) wrote: pbrmeasap24@hotmail.com TIM HAMILTON Please expalin why truck for truck 2008 Toyota Tacoma is at least 10,000.00cheaper in the US ,1 driving hour from my home.And now you insult more by offering a 1000.00 gas/cash discount.Please be honest and respond.thank-you
December 15th, 2007 at 6:31 am
<<<>>>>
I want to know what kind of cars do Toyota USA sell to Americans living in Alaska or any states close to canadian borber.
May be they get to buy cars ” MADE-FOR-CANADA ” with special mudguards…..
Yes we are a peaceful and quiet nation but we are not STUPID.
I’m sick and tired of being treated like a second class citizen.
December 15th, 2007 at 6:37 am
What a surprise to learn that some of the stakeholders have a different position from that of us!! If we’re correct when we estimate that we’re being ripped off to the tune of $5 billion to $8 billion per year by our domestic manufacturers and importers, then you can damn well bet that their position is different from ours!!!!
Let’s see how the changes actually look once they are published then be prepared to fight for an all-encompassing, long-term solution. Even though as individuals we might get we want out of this, and they might hope that we’ll go away quietly, I believe we owe it to everybody to try and break the stranglehold that these guys have over the RIV. It’s clearly wrong that they wield so much power, and I suspect there won’t be too many legal arguments that would support their case if we were to decide to push, and push hard. I love a good fight — especially when I feel that unscrupulous bullies are involved.
December 15th, 2007 at 6:43 am
Furthermore, and as a matter of principle, I will NEVER purchase another car in Canada until the pricing differences between the USA and Canada are resolved. Yes, it’s a more painful process to purchase and import from the USA, but there are some fundamental principles involved that I feel very strongly about.
And, I don’t care what they say about warranty service etc.. I’ll get any work done south of the border. Again, it’s more painful, but the principles we’re fighting to uphold are too important to let go of.
December 15th, 2007 at 7:28 am
Simon, you just said the magic words! “I will NEVER purchase another car in Canada until the pricing differences between the USA and Canada are resolved” Now our task, is to convince everyone in Canada to take this position. Take all our energies and in a positive manner ensure Canadians are aware of this problem, ensure Canadians are aware of carswithoutborders and our reason for being. As you can see most media outlets appear to be afraid to lose the revenue streams associated with Car adds. Most Government officials and political parties also appear to be in bed with the Car manufacturers. So we need to focus on our media and awareness plan, use the 1) use the internet, 2) Public Broadcasting 3) find and create alliances with other associations, and find ways to get one consistent message out to the Canadian public. You are getting hosed by 5-7 billion dollars a year!
December 15th, 2007 at 7:56 am
Absolutely, this is what we need to do Robert. I also suspect that just a few months with greatly reduced sales would soon have them reassessing their situation.
I like the idea of a Fifth Estate feature on this. I also like the idea of forming a real lobby group, with real $$ to throw at a professionally run marketing campaign with slick and hard hitting adverts placed in all relevant publications that are not afraid to publish what we have to say. If enough of us get angry enough about this, and if enough of us contribute enough $$ towards this, we’ll be able to make a real and lasting impact from which all Canadians will benefit.
December 15th, 2007 at 9:13 am
Simon, Serge, I and most of our team, dislike the word “lobby group” it associates us with all the “fatcats in Ottawa and Washington wining and dining MPs, and politicians”. We are more like a group of enablers. A group of people dedicated helping Canadians indroduce change for the betterment of our society, in what appears to be a very backward, hidden, and possibly corrupt system. Maybe we need to look at the “Greenpeace Model”, but I don’t think I want to chain my self to Cannon’s front porch in Gatineau,on Christmas Eve, although if enough people did so it might be interesting!
December 15th, 2007 at 11:29 am
God blessing us, hope the regulation will pass this Sunday, and RIV change the list Sunday afternoon or Monday morning..
otherwise, this Christmas is gonna be…..
December 15th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Clearly Toyota has challenging climatic problems getting me to swallow this piece of spin. Sure glad I live up wind from that lady. I believe we have to give Ottawa a chance to digest everything. Our government has put too much trust in the auto industry to act in a responsible manner. They appear to have been blind-sided. Without our comments and research Mr. Davis would be oblivious and have his feet propped up on his taxpayers desk thinking it’s all-automatic. Now he has to scratch his head and other body parts and come to realize and deal with those who have taken advantage of this blind trust. All was under control until our stronger dollar came a long. Toyota deserves the misplay of the year award. For what they did was far too obvious. Alice McNamee’s comments are an example of the manipulation the auto industry is accustomed to shoveling down the throats of an anesthetized bureaucratic office.
December 15th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
The only way to force foreign manufacturers of Canada to reduce their price to a reasonable level is stopping buy from them. Should every Canadian hold his money from buy any vehicle for three months, their business will crash. Remember, we don’t have the right to decide the price but we have the power to effectively use our own money. That is the only and the most powerful tool we have.
December 15th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
What is the Holdup. We have given them ironclad proof the the Immobilizers are exactly the same units used in the USA and Canadian versions.
We have also interviewed their own people in two different states.
New York and Virginia.
All parties said that they were exactly the same units and that they were as good or better than any others presently on the market.
It is my contention that the Immobilizers, safety and theft
were never a concern for Transport Canada.
The white sticker on the drivers door frame from Honda states as follows:
This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle safety, bumper and theft prevention standards
in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.
The date shown above 09/07
Checked out the door frame sticker at West Island Sources Honda on Dec 08 and to my surprise it is the same as the US Version. Dec 8/07.
With the amount of evidence we have gathered, we are more tham ready to confront their experts.
Lets see the correspondence that has passed among the concerned parties and this case will be wrapped up very quickly.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
I guess that they just don’t get it- the game is over and Canadians have woken up
Did they not think that after knowing the rules that Canadians were not going to count the days on the calendar for the planned ( and passed according to the Official Canadian Gazette) announcements.
Try , as a Canadian taxpayer, to tell such excuses when it comes time to pay your taxes or the gst / pst on your Canadian car exported to the states and then reimported under Nafta rules back to Canada.
I guess both the federal government / its civil servants and the Canadian car industry had gotten away with such tactics for many years and many many times.
The games up fellahs. Cough it up.
December 15th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
PLEASE !!!, FELLOW CANADIANS, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS OVER THE WEEKEND, OR, DURING THE NEXT FEW DAYS, WITH REGARD TO THE IMMOBILIZERS, DO NOT GIVE UP THE FIGHT, TO MAKE TRANSPORT CANADA HONEST, TO GAIN CONTROL OF THE MARKET PLACE FOR ORDINARY PEOPLE AND ENSURE THAT FREE TRADE REALLY MEANS, WHAT THE TWO WORDS SAY. UNDER THE FREE TRADE AGREEMENT THAT WE ENTERED INTO, WE ARE ALL ENTITLED, TO HAVE FREE TRADE WITH OUR NEIGHBORS. “WE”, MEANS US, THE COMMON PEOPLE, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US. IT DOES NOT MEAN, JUST FOREIGN OWNED CORPORATIONS. THE CURRENT STATUS QUO MUST GO, PERIOD. THE UNSAVORY AND ILLEGAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TRANSPORT CANADA AND FOREIGN MANUFACTURERS MUST END, NOW. STANDARDS RELATED BARRIERS TO TRADE MUST BE ELIMINATED, PERIOD. THIS WAS PROMISED TO US IN THE CANADA, U.S.A. FREE TRADE AGREEMENT, BACK IN 1988 AND IS WRITTEN INTO THAT AGREEMENT. THE CURRENT REQUIREMENT FOR SMALL INDEPENDENTS AND PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS TO “PROVE” COMPLIANCE ON PRODUCTS, MUST END, PERIOD. THE REQUIREMENT TO PROVE RECALL STATUS, MUST END, PERIOD. SAFETY RECALLS ARE PUBLIC INFORMATION. TRANSPORT CANADA ALREADY HAS THIS INFORMATION. IT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE FOR TRANSPORT CANADA TO REQUIRE THAT WE PROVIDE PROOF OF THESE THINGS, THROUGH TRYING, OFTEN IN VAIN, TO OBTAIN WRITTEN LETTERS, FROM THE VERY PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THEIR VERY BEST TO WITHHOLD THIS INFORMATION FROM US, BY DECEPTIVE MEANS. IT IS ALL VERY WELL FOR US TO ALLOW FOREIGN MANUFACTURERS TO IMPORT THEIR PRODUCTS INTO OUR COUNTRY. IT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE THAT WE ALLOW THEM TO MANIPULATE, INFLUENCE AND CORRUPT OUR GOVERNMENT INTO PREVENTING US, THE ORDINARY PEOPLE, FROM IMPORTING AND EXPORTING THOSE SAME PRODUCTS, TO, FROM, WITHIN AND BETWEEN REGIONS OF THE VERY SAME MARKET PLACE, THAT WE HAVE MADE AVAILABLE TO THESE CORPORATIONS. TRANSPORT CANADA HAS, AS THE RESULT OF THIS MANIPULATION, PROVIDED AN ENORMOUS MONETARY BENEFIT TO THESE CORPORATIONS, IN THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, GOING BACK THIRTY YEARS AND MORE. THIS MUST END. WHAT MONETARY BENEFITS HAVE BEEN PROVIDED TO TRANSPORT CANADA AND OR, IT’S OFFICIALS, SINCE THE 1970′S, ???. THIS MUST BE INVESTIGATED AND CANADIANS MUST BE TOLD. WE DO NOT NEED A REGISTRAR OF IMPORTED VEHICLES, A PRIVATE, PROFIT MAKING COMPANY, CONTRACTED BY TRANSPORT CANADA TO COLLECT MONEY FROM US, TO SUPPOSEDLY PAY FOR COLLECTING DATA FROM US, THAT SHOULD INSTEAD, BE PROVIDED TO US. WE NEED AND ARE ENTITLED TO AND MUST HAVE, HARMONIZED STANDARDS. WE MUST HAVE UNIMPEDED ACCESS TO THE MARKET PLACE, PERIOD. WE MUST NO LONGER BE CONFRONTED WITH DECEPTIVE PRACTICES, USED TO IMPOSE UPON US, STANDARDS RELATED BARRIERS, THAT ARE CLEVERLY AND DECEITFULLY INTENDED, FOR NOTHING OTHER THAN, TO DENY MARKET ACCESS TO US. THE BUMPER STANDARDS MUST GO. THEY WERE NEVER INTENDED TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH OCCUPANT SAFETY. THEY WERE IMPOSED ON NORTH AMERICANS, BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IN 1974, AS A TRADE BARRIER, TO PREVENT AMERICANS, FROM IMPORTING CARS FROM EUROPE. NOW, MANY YEARS LATER, WE IN CANADA, HAVE TRANSPORT CANADA, DEHARMONIZE FROM THE U.S. STANDARD, IN ORDER TO PREVENT US FROM IMPORTING FROM THE AMERICANS. MOST CARS SOLD IN CANADA, HAVE THE SAME IDENTICAL BUMPERS AS THOSE SOLD IN THE U.S.. THE MANUFACTURERS SIMPLY REFUSE TO CERTIFY THAT THESE BUMPERS ARE THE SAME IN ORDER TO DENY US ACCESS. MANY CANADIANS ARE NOW FINDING OUT THAT THE SAME DECEPTIVE PRACTICE HAS BEEN USED WITH THE IMMOBILIZERS. TRANSPORT CANADA MUST STICK TO THE BUSINESS OF THAT, WHICH IT WAS CREATED FOR; PROTECTING THE SAFETY OF CANADIANS, TRAVELLING BY AIR, LAND AND WATER. TRANSPORT CANADA, HAS NO MANDATE, FROM US, THE PEOPLE OF CANADA, TO GO TO WORK FOR THE MULTINATIONALS, TO HELP THEM TO MANIPULATE AND CONTROL US, IN OUR MARKET PLACE. TRANSPORT CANADA MUST HARMONIZE ALL STANDARDS, WITH THOSE OF OUR TRADING PARTNERS. THIS MUST BE ENSHRINED IN CANADIAN LAW, TO ENSURE THAT ABSOLUTELY NO REGULATION, NO PRACTICE, DECEPTIVE, OR OTHERWISE, CAN EVER AGAIN BE USED AGAINST US. WE THE PEOPLE MUST BE IN CHARGE HERE, NOT SECRETIVE AND CORRUPT GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, NOR DISHONEST, CORPORATIONS. PLEASE, FELLOW CANADIANS, DO NOT GIVE UP THE FIGHT UNTIL THE BATTLE, THE WHOLE BATTLE AND NOTHING BUT THE WHOLE BATTLE, HAS BEEN WON!!!
December 16th, 2007 at 10:06 am
[IMG]http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh318/TARBS/noname.jpg[/IMG] This speaks for
its self..
December 16th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
i will be in the market for a new vehicle next year and i can guarantee my dollars will be spent south of the border unless this mess is cleared up and the manufacturers have brought their cdn pricing to a reasonable level . Perhaps Wendy over at Marketplace could help shed some light on this ridiculous new immobilizer standard . A direct comparison on national tv between a us spec vehicle ( loaned to them of course by a nice us private citizen ) and canadian vehicle that originated from the same canadian plant could do wonders to end this sharade . She’s great at tracking down and confronting the ones in charge .
December 17th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Hey Andrew. I agree with what you are saying and feel outrage too but my eyes hurt trying to read all those capitals.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Thinking out loud. The auto manufacturers associations state they are in favour of the North American harmonization of standards including the immobilizer, that is they do not support the new CMVSS114.. Unfortunately Transport Canada have painted themselves into a corner with the amendment that will allow non complying vehicles at the retail level yet still force manufacturers to comply
This is good ammunition for the manufacturers to object and my guess that is exactly the basis on which they are doing so. So, does TC throw out the whole CMVSS 114 regulation. I doubt it.
At this point the manufacturers can’t lose because the whole CMVSS 114 /RIV /VAFUS fiasco have given them time to effectively close the door on imports using their US Companies and dealers. Sure the odd sale will continue to slip through the cracks but large scale importing has been blocked.